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Property Management Mastermind Show

#153: Process Serving With Proof

Nov 18, 2022 by Brad Larsen

The burden of eviction notices and process serving is heavy enough. Not to mention all the time that could be spent focusing on your properties. What if there was a way you could get out of having to drive to your properties or avoid a potentially dangerous situation with a bad tenant eviction. Steve Bachtel joins the podcast to talk about how Proof can properly serve notices, reduce risks, and why they’re called the Uber of process serving.

To learn more visit www.proofserve.com.

Connect with Brad's team at www.rentwerx.com!

Brad:  Hey everybody. On today's episode, I've got Steve Bachtel here from Proof, and we're gonna be talking about the process serving methods that RentWerx had just implemented into its business. You gotta take a listen. 

Anncr: Welcome to the Property Management Mastermind show with your host Brad Larsen. Brad owns one of the fastest growing property management companies in San Antonio, Texas. This podcast is for property managers by property managers. You'll hear from industry leading professionals on best practices, new ideas, success stories, and lessons learned. This is yout opportunity to learn about the latest industry buzz surrounding property management, as well as tips and strategies to improve your business.

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Brad: Welcome everybody to another addition of the Property Management Mastermind podcast. I am your host, Brad Larsen. In today's guest, we're gonna have a pretty interesting interview. Uh, his name is Steve Bachtel, and he's coming at us as the Chief Revenue Officer, which has always been my title, of course, the Chief Revenue Officer of Proof.

Brad: Now, I had to get him on the show because we just had a demo with them this week. And as owner of RentWerx in San Antonio and Austin, we manage roughly 1100 single family homes in the region. And one of our issues or problems, of course, is non-paying tenants and or a method to properly serve. Tenants when we need to send them in notice to vacate.

Brad: Now I know it's called like 10 different other things in other states, whatever. But we're gonna get into this with Steve and Steve's gonna talk to us about their services and after the demo I'm like, I gotta get you on a podcast because this is really good stuff for our peers out there to look at and get into because I think this is a really good solution.

Brad: So Steve, if you could come on and give us a few minutes of your time and the introduction. How are you doing today? 

Steve: Alright Brad, thanks for, uh, thanks for having me.. 

Brad: Love it. I love the title. I'm gonna start calling myself the Chief Revenue Officer as well, uh, because, you know, you and I were talking in the Green Room and you just do one little thing in a property management company to create another $5 of revenue a year, $10 of revenue a year.

Brad: Boy, it really adds up. And I know that's, you know, not your whole gig of course, with proof, but give us kind of a synopsis of what you guys do as a company. 

Steve: Yeah, so we would consider ourselves kind of the uber of process serving. So if you think of what a pro of what process serving is, for those who don't know, uh, this is the delivery of legal papers.

Steve: And we do that nationally. In fact, we're the only legal technology in the country right now. That, uh, that has a technology for serving papers. So we connect, uh, many times law firms, or in this case property management companies with, uh, process servers coast to coast. So if you need to have a delinquency notice, uh, delivered or an eviction notice delivered professionally by a process server, you can drop those documents into our platform, go out, and we geolocate the nearest, uh, professional process server to where those papers need to.

Steve: and get that job done, you get to watch the whole thing happen, live time within the software. So, uh, you can see the attempts that are made if there's any sort of problem. As you can imagine, sometimes there are problems when you go out to visit somebody in person. Uh, you get to watch that, uh, live in the software.

Steve: Uh, when it's all done, we deliver back to you, uh, and affidavit or, uh, what, uh, would otherwise be called proof of service. And that is what you can, you know, give to the judge if you're ever asked. 

Brad: Yeah. So that's step one of any eviction, right, that you have to properly serve them. Cuz we all know the tenants will walk into it just as the piece and say, I didn't know anything about this. I, I never got service. And they, they claim all kinds of good stuff. So let me take you down memory lane a little bit. So we are reminiscing about this. I did this demo call with your team this week and. I went back to my team. I was sitting down with Melanie and Amy, and we were talking about the way we used to do it and the way we do it now, and just, there's a couple different methods out there.

Brad: So to properly serve people, you could talk about doing registered mail. Okay. That's one technique. Nobody signs for their dang registered mail. Right? Let's, let's be realistic. I don't. So if I get a registered mail little green card, I'm not dragging my butt down to the post office and try to get there before 6:00 PM to sign for something.

Brad: That can't be good. Right? Nothing good ever comes registered mail that I can think of. Uh, so that's one thing that is, it's a poor method to potentially do that. Yeah, I get it. It's air quote, legal, you know, you can show that you sent it via registered mail. I get all that. You know, people are screaming at me on the podcast right now and the other method we were doing years ago, this is really cool.

Brad: Uh, we were paying basically couriers to come to our office. Uh, we would do this on the fourth or the fifth of the month, right? Whatever the first day after the rent was due. And we would have a pre-made up notice to vacate form, like a letter, and we would package it up in an envelope. We'd have a courier show up to our office.

Brad: They would physically take it from our office and deliver it to the home. However, And, and the fun cost of that was $21 and 75 cents. And I magically remembered that number. I don't know how I did, but, uh, I mean, this is six, seven years ago we were doing this. And the, the point of all that is there was never any really good proof of service with that.

Brad: And that always made me a hair nervous. Yeah, we had a little invoice from the courier that they signed off on. But we never really had any solid, like, man, I would stake my life on it, uh, to be able to go into front of a judge and say, yeah, we properly serve them. So I'm sure I'm forgetting. 10, 10 other different methods. And you work nationwide. You got any other methods that you see out there? . 

Steve: Yeah. And it, when you mentioned that $20 and, and you know, I guess the, the, the, the $20 is great except for the fact that you didn't have any idea of whether it actually happened. So if anybody ever challenges that eviction, uh, you could be in real trouble.

Steve: And, and that trouble could add up to a, a lot of dollars because you, uh, you didn't do the eviction. Properly, uh, what we have found in, in some of the very large property management companies that, that we work with have found that, yes, I mean, certified mail, it, it's kind of an escalating process, right?

Steve: Certified mail has been a gold standard for a long time. A lot of folks have used it. Um, and what is the success rate of, of Certified Mail? Um, The next level above that is we can also do postings. So we're certainly doing that for things like delinquency notices. Uh, and a posting can carry some weight because someone's actually come to your door and they've taped something, uh, to the door, so it feels a little bit more serious.

Steve: But if you're talking about actually taking action, And having a professional process server arrive at the door, uh, knock on the door and hand you the paperwork, uh, themselves. And then in that affidavit we describe who we met with, who we talked to. We geolocate where it happens. You get a, you get a time and a date stamp and a geolocation stamp inside the affidavit. And that's the proof that we provide back. That carries just far more weight than any of The before mentioned, uh, types of service, uh, that perhaps folks are already doing right now.

Brad: Yeah. And all that stuff is fantastic. We're all talking. I, I kind of got wrapped up in the, uh, the whole legalities of this whole thing, the process of doing something legal.

Brad: But here's the biggest reason why we're doing what we're, why we're going to engage with your team to interject this process into our system is safety. That's first and foremost. I don't wanna send any one of my staff members out to a home to post something on the front door on an eviction process, I noticed to vacate for nonpayment of rent. I don't wanna send any of my staffers out there now. You can talk safety, you can talk all the other stuff, but that's the big one. Then you start throwing into the, the fact that you guys all have all these cool features, the geocaching, the affidavit already signed. I mean that is just rock solid proof that it was done correctly. 

Brad: And so number one was safety for me. Okay. The, the expense of it is a little bit more and you can talk through that and that's gonna vary by region. You know, that's all fine and dandy, but the safety of it was a big deal because process servers, correct me if I'm wrong, you guys are kind of trained in that, or at least you work with that. So talk to me about, you know, some of their experiences and how they become process servers in the safety method. 

Steve: Yeah, most states have a certification process, so you do have to go through some certification to be able to become a process server. Um, the rest of it really does come with on-the-job training.

Steve: And if you talk to the majority of the process servers that, that work with us, uh, they will tell you about how they shadowed other process servers, the certifications that they have to go through. Um, many times they will work for a professional process serving company, uh, that that gives them on the job training.

Steve: Um, but that training, remember, they're, they're not just doing evictions. A lot of times these folks are doing, uh, they might be divorce papers. It, uh, might be a restraining order that they have to, that they have to go serve. Um, the other thing that, that a lot of times happens, there are certain lawyers in, in the, uh, in the country who like to serve people, like celebrities or, or, or politicians.

Steve: Uh, we literally see that every single day, uh, the president of the United States gets served on a daily basis.. So, um, you know, these are guys that, uh, just a couple weeks ago, uh, we, we had a, a few folks that had to go out and try to serve, uh, a member of a, of a popular rock band, uh, while they were on tour in California.

Steve: And they, they sat and staked out, uh, the, the concert and hung out backstage afterwards to get these papers delivered. Um, those types of things happen. These, these folks have that type of experience. So when it comes to walking up to a residence and, and handing over eviction papers, uh, they've been in situations before where if it got unsafe, uh, they know how to deescalate those situations.

Brad: Yeah. One thing I failed to mention too is like, I'm focusing my mind on Texas in this conversation, you know, forgetting the other parts of the country, like in Texas for example, we have to pi post that notice. Uh, yeah. Inside the front door, like inside the screen, door on the door. Uh, obviously it's better in person.

Brad: And so I want you to talk a couple different things here. Talk to me about this, the service of what your process servers do. Like I, I understand through the demo, and this is talking to your main guy, uh, Daniel. Uh, the process servers will actually kind of coach the people up a little bit. And so not knowing, you know, not life coach stuff, like, hey, you know, you know, insert adjective here.

Brad: Uh, you didn't pay your f in rent. Right? But more like, yeah, this is, this is a, a notice from rent works. I think it's about rent. You may wanna give your, your property manager a call and get it squared away. There might be a little bit of coaching on that, but also talk to us about other parts of the country, how it might differ.

Brad: And so this ties into your service perfectly. One, they're doing a little bit of coaching, and two, you know, they're going to adhere to the state, uh, regulations forer for process serving. Am I correct?. 

Steve: Yeah, and I think that's probably the, the, the really important part of this, right, is that there are, you know, different jurisdictions have, uh, different rules about how you can go about this.

Steve: Um, you know, Texas Hills that you can't post, uh, on a Sunday. Uh, and so a courier service might not know that. And so if you send this out with a courier service and they didn't complete all their work on, uh, on a Saturday, And they might say, we're gonna go ahead and just, you know, finish up this work on a Sunday.

Steve: Everything that just got delivered on a Sunday can't be used if it winds up going to court. So it's important to have a team that knows what the equal jurisdictional laws are when it comes to posings or when it comes to eviction notices. Um, from a coaching up standpoint, you know, certainly the process server doesn't wanna have to give any, any sort of legal advice, uh, that that's not what their work is.

Steve: But they can certainly say, uh, you know, these are important papers, papers that you need to respond to. Um, and they can certainly mention where, you know, where it's coming from. We have the ability within the tool for, uh, Each one of of our clients, it might be you guys to type in what type of, um, what type of information or how, how the process server, how you'd like the process server to go about delivering the papers.

Steve: So if, um, if you say that, you know, you want it, Uh, between the doors, if it's a double door, you could put that in as a special request, and that goes out to the server as well. So if you'd like them to say something specific like, these are papers for RentWerx, we could do that. We could include that in the special requirements.

Brad: One of the questions I had with, with Danny doing the demo was, okay, what papers are you serving? Are we sending you something hard copy? Are we uploading a letter? Something like that. So talk us through the actual physical notice to vacate letter. Like what is that and where you're getting that from?

Steve: Yeah. So these will be your legal papers. Right? And my guess is, is that most of the folks that you work with already have these types of papers drawn up. Probably have, you know, the, the lawyer, their lawyers have, have reviewed those papers. That's not the part of business we'd like to get into. Uh, so we, we are taking the papers that, that you already have.

Steve: Uh, designed and ready to go. You literally just drag and drop your documents into our software platform, and that's what arrives. Uh, at a FedEx. We have a, a national agreement with, with FedEx, uh, printing. So that can all be printed, uh, confidentially. We have a confidentially confidentiality agreement with, with FedEx.

Steve: Um, the process server goes to their local FedEx picks up that information, goes out and delivers it. But they are your papers, the papers that, uh, that, that you've already created. 

Brad: I thought that was really cool because obviously we have a form. I mean, every, every management company has a form they fill in, you know, they put the address in there, they put the nonpayment of rent checkbox, you know, here's the amount that's due.

Brad: Uh, and then they, they drag and drop. That's really cool. So you're talking. You know, I was talking to Danny about this. I'm like, let's say we have 25 non-payments of rent. Uh, we're gonna send out 25 notices, but honestly, we may only file one eviction every other month. Our eviction rates are pretty low and we try to, you know, I know I'm being kind of soft, right?

Brad: You're gonna all gonna laugh at me. But we do try to actually. Get the folks to pay rent first. I mean, that's our whole objective. And we get, people forget like, I've forgotten payments. Everyone here is forgetting, forgotten payments. And I can just imagine them getting these papers, these notice to vacate papers and the husband and wife look at each other like, I thought you paid the rent.

Brad: No, I thought you paid the rent. Oh, okay, well we better go pay rent. And so those are, those are specific. Now, the cost of this, right? Uh, that's gotta be deferred to the tenant. And this is where, you know, this is where it's not necessarily, you're not trying to make money on this thing, but, uh, you know, if, if your cost is X, you need to buffer that cost a little bit and charge it to the tenant.

Brad: And, you know, if you wanna be Mr. Nice person, you could do a rent, uh, uh, Sorry, a late forgiveness policy of one time, you know, you can give him a, give him a one, one strike type of a deal because this is a good opportunity for you to talk through your costs so people understand, okay, there's, there's a lot of good features to it, a lot of benefits, but it does cost something. So hit me with that. 

Steve: Yeah, absolutely. And you can go to www.proofserve.com. That's the website, www.proofserve.com. Uh, and our, our pricing is there. So if you were to click there, you could type in your address, you could type in your zip code, and you could find out your local rate. Nationally, our standard, we have a couple standard rates.

Steve: One is for postings. So if we're just going to go posting, as you can imagine, that just takes one visit, right? So we can go out, we can post the papers, Take that photograph, geolocate it and walk away. That's $45. Uh, for personal service, our standard rate across states, and it goes a little bit down, a little bit depending on the state or the location, but it's $85 is the standard rate across the country for personal service.

Steve: Uh, that's across seven days, four different attempts. So, you know, someone's trying to dodge this. Or isn't home. Uh, we will make attempts in the morning. We'll make him over lunchtime. We'll make him in the evening. We'll also try once on the weekend. Uh, so if the, if the server has to go out a few, a few different times, that's why the, the rate's a little bit higher.

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Brad: For our perspective though, I wanna be clear, really postings is what we need. Like property managers, we're not really serving people with, you know, trying to properly serve them. That's our attorneys, you know, they, they take the notice posting and they go file the eviction. Then it's up to the constable and everybody else to serve the tenants from there.

Brad: So that's not our gigs. I just don't want, I don't want people to hear 85 and they're like, oh, I can't afford it. You know, 45, whatever. I mean, it was funny, Danny and I were talking about that, and he's like, yeah, there's certain markets like, uh, that, that you just can't service because you're, you're so spread out and, and so you're just gonna have to go to the website and check it out.

Brad: But let's say it's 45 for RentWerxs for fun, or maybe it's 48 or it's whatever property management companies out there. Listen to me. All you gotta do is charge a little bit extra and then charge. It's attendances obligation to pay it. So it's gonna be their gig to pay that. And so this pays for itself times a little bit.

Brad: And you know, we talked about revenue in the, in the beginning of the podcast jokingly, but it's not a money maker gang, but, There is enough there to cover the costs, and this is professionally done and it's our job as property management company owners. I've said this for years, property management companies doing good property management.

Brad: We take marginal tenants and turn them into good paying tenants because when they get one of these, Letters to their door on the fifth of the month because they didn't pay rent. That's probably going to be enough deterrent that they're going to continue to pay rent on time from there on, realizing they know they can't get away with it.

Brad: Now, I interrupted you. You were gonna go a little bit further into, uh, some of that comment, so please continue on. 

Steve: Yeah, you know, I, I just wanted to mention, you know, one of the other, uh, positives and, and this was a, this was a learning opportunity for me cause um, you know, we, we had been working with law firms before and we, we have a large property management company in Georgia, uh, who was doing postings with us.

Steve: And we're literally talking thousands of postings a month. Um, and what they were noticing when the, when that affidavit would come back is that many of the process servers in that paragraph were giving them descriptions of what they saw when they went to go do the posting. And in those notes it was saying things like, it looks like the property is vacant, or no one was home, and the furniture's gone.

Steve: So imagine how much faster you can have your perhaps addiction process run. If you have notes that say, We, we were doing a delinquency notice, but it turns out the tenant had moved out entirely. They, they were, they were just gone. So now all of a sudden, you don't have to go through the eviction process, uh, because they've self evicted.

Steve: And, uh, that just sped up, that just sped up your time to, to, uh, putting someone new in that, in that, uh, unit. 

Brad: Well that's also, that's really cool. I mean, here's why. So you mentioned they, they peek in the window just by accident, cuz you know, it's wide open and they see no furniture, no cars in the driveway, nobody's home.

Brad: Lights are off. It's, you know, you know, 5:00 PM whatever. Uh, that's rock solid proof that you can immediately take the property back. So we would not necessarily have to do an occupancy check. It would be smart to do one of course, but that could be an occupancy check slash change the locks all at the same time versus like a knock knock is anybody home?

Brad: And then two days later you change the locks and then two days later you start the make ready. So that really does help the property management company because now you have a means to get a proof that the tenant moved out, right? It's one thing that you heard from the neighbors, but now you have a, a process server under an affidavit that says when they were there, nobody was home, and no furniture in the property, which would lead us to enter the property.

Brad: And again, I'm really digging in the weeds. I mean, how often does this really come up? But you gotta get these processes down and you cannot put your team members at peril when you have professionals that do this for a living. So let them do it. And this is fantastic. I really love it. I mean, I'm glad we got a chance to talk here about this. Uh, so what else you gotta add to this? 

Steve: Yeah. You know, I mean, that's where the, that, that speed to service really was a, uh, a nice roi. I think. I think that the other ROI is, is just the seriousness of, of that posting. So you have somebody who's professionally going. Posting this, and then you get that proof back.

Steve: So the fact that you're getting with every single one of these, and again, the, uh, the, the, the one account, the one client of ours that, uh, that does thousands of these a month, they are getting back affidavits that include photos and geolocations on every single one of these. So it's rock solid. If, if they're ever challenged on any one of these, they can go back into the system, they can pull that document and show the court proof that it actually happened..

Brad: Yeah, I, I think we're gonna have a pretty easy time implementing this. Uh, I, I task one of my staffers to do another demo so they understand it, and then we can interject into our process. Uh, you know, it's always been, we, we've used a local attorney for a long time and we've been doing the. The postings with the certified mail and I just don't think we're getting a fast enough response.

Brad: And it has nothing to do with the attorney, right? The attorney's fine if when you hand them, uh, you know, a golden nugget on a silver platter, then they'll be fine with the eviction process. But you gotta get 'em to that point of handing 'em the silver platter. And so it doesn't really matter necessarily who does the postings.

Brad: We could do it. You could do it. But again, I go back to the safety thing and the cost effectiveness thing, uh, and the windshield time thing. I mean, I would rather pay you guys and your professional team to do this, right, uh, so we don't have to try to document it, and then we look like we're, we're trying to do something weird.

Brad: Uh, it's just irrefutable. When you hand this to an attorney, they take exactly what you've done with the affidavit, and then they can go file an eviction if you need them to file the evictions. Now, a lot of folks can do their own, you know, we get property managers that do their own still, but recently there's been a trend where, Non attorneys have been getting kicked out of the jp.

Brad: Right, so this is, this has happened to us where one of our property managers, Ruby, she got kicked outta court because she was not an attorney. The judge, you know, probably newly appointed or elected said, I only talked to attorneys, get outta here and kicked her out . So it's getting weirder and weirder to do evictions.

Brad: And that was the other thing that we want to talk about because you're, you're kind of seeing The entire spectrum, right? We had pre covid and now we have post covid and we had during code where no one was, we had the eviction moratorium going on. Uh, anything pop up in your mind that you wanna chat on just from the, the trends you've seen the last three years?

Steve: Yeah, you know, the courts are starting to catch up. So with it within Covid, uh, the courts really did get backed up. So a lot, a lot of these cases got backed up and, and some of your listeners might even be struggling with that right now because they're just waiting to get a court date. Um, but what we're finding is that those court dates are, are starting to ramp up.

Steve: Um, and we're starting to see a lot of volume broke. So obviously evictions are, are kind of, you know, there was the moratorium for a while and that shut things down. Now of course, things are starting to pick back up. So, uh, the volume has, has only increased. So I, I imagine you have some listeners that are having to deal with that volume at your point about windshield time.

Steve: Uh, maybe they don't want to take this on, uh, themselves. Uh, maybe they just need a little bit of your help and maybe they just need it for a while. Uh, we can maybe fill in while they, uh, while they play some catch-up. 

Brad: Yeah. At any scale this works, whether you manage one home or 10,000 homes at any scale of your business.

Brad: This, this completely makes a lot of sense to me. Uh, and again, we're, we're taking it on cause I think it's a fantastic service and it's just one less thing that we can take off of our plate cuz you know, I think we were doing it okay, but this is a big improvement. In my opinion. So I'm really excited to be doing this.

Brad: So to wrap this up real quick, go ahead and give us the best way to get in touch with your team to get a demo and, and start the process of getting this implemented into their business. 

Steve: Yeah. Uh, thanks so much, Brad. So, um, you could go to proofserve.com, uh, P r O O f S e R V e, proofserve.com. Uh, right from the main page, you can go ahead and sign up.

Steve: So there's a, just a button for signup. There is no cost, up front, right, so you can go ahead and sign up and just have it at the ready when you're ready to go. Uh, we are transactional, so if you do a job, we, we send you an invoice. Uh, and, and that's really all there is to it. Um, you could also ask for more information. It would just be info@infoproofserve.com. Um, certainly mention the, uh, mention the pod and, uh, we would be, uh, happy to give you a free serve for, uh, for listening to the pod. 

Brad: Cool man. I should be getting all kinds of gift cards for that, right? I gotta got a freebie on the, on the show. So I understand also your team's gonna be out at NARPM National coming up here, uh, in Las Vegas, and by the time this publishes, it might be after the fact, but you know, you guys are getting into the, the. Single family residential space a bit more. And we're hoping to see you guys at the Property Manager mastermind conference there in Nashville and March. Haven't made a decision yet, not twisting your arm. Maybe I should put the hard sell whammy on you while I got you on the show. But I'm sure you guys gotta take a look at your budget and your schedule and, and make a decision from there.

Brad: But it's really good to see you guys come into this space because I think it's a needed solution. Uh, that's great. It's just, I haven't really seen. That works this well. This is, this is really exciting. Who thought you'd ever get excited about process serving? Right? But it's one more thing that we can take off of our plate and do well, and we can show people that we're doing it well and we are the professionals at this, so darn it.

Brad: We need to improve at every turn, you know, and we've been doing this for 10 plus years, so it, it's good to see this come to, uh, come to market. Now real quick, can you name drop any big players that would be like, oh, wow, you guys work with them? 

Steve: Well, if you're familiar with Con Rex, uh, con Rex is, is, is is one of our very large customers, uh, that we're, that we're working with right now.

Brad: That's cool. I'm sure you got lots more and I think you're gonna add a few more from this show being published and then get a few leads. So Steve, hey my man, really appreciate you coming out. It was a cool conversation and, uh, look forward to staying in touch with you here in the future. 

Steve: Thanks a lot, Brad

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About The Host

The Host of this Podcast is Brad Larsen from San Antonio, Texas. Brad is the founder and owner of RentWerx, one of the fastest growing residential Property Management companies in Texas that currently manages over 700 single family homes.